The Jews are also out-and-out materialists: you die, well, you die, it's over. Though I haven't quite understood how they reconcile that with their God, who moreover is Unthinkable and must not be named ... but who, seen from the standpoint of a vaster truth, seems (I am not sure), seems to be an Asura. Because it's an almighty and UNIQUE God, foreign to the world - the world (as far as I know) and he are two completely different things.
It's the same with Catholicism. Yet, if I remember correctly, their God created the world with a part of himself, no?
No, no!
No? Is it only man that he pulled out of his rib?
No! It's out of Adam's rib that he pulled man, not out of his own rib!
Aah!
It's out of Adam's rib ...
... that he pulled woman. Aah! ...
No, no, he "created" the world.
Out of nothingness he made the world?
That's right.
Then it's the same problem, the same difficulty. It's quite simply an incomprehension.
And in fact he sent his son to "save the world."
Then his son doesn't belong to the creation?
He is the son of God - not so the others.
He is the ONLY son of God?
Yes, of course!
They've twisted everything. But Adam belonged to the creation, didn't he?
Yes, while Christ isn't human, he is the son.
But he took on a human body.
Yes, but he's the son of God. He isn't a human being become divine, he is a divine being - "the son of God" - who took on a human body.
But that's understood! All Avatars are like that.
Yes, but he's the only one.
It's all twisted.
But the Virgin, in that affair? What happened to her? Because she was a woman, wasn't she?
She was human.
Yes ... because in the story, there's even a moment when Christ says, "What do I have to do with that woman"! But then, the Assumption? ...
(silence)
Of course, those who know understand very well - it's all symbolic.
But for instance, I told you I spoke with the Pope for quite a long time the day of his election, and the conversation was abruptly interrupted by a reaction he had. (It was really a mental conversation we were having: I spoke, he replied, I heard his reply - I don't know whether he was conscious of something ... probably not, but anyway; it wasn't at all a formation of my own mind because I received quite unexpected replies.) But the conversation was interrupted abruptly by a reaction he had when I told him that God is everywhere and in all things; that everything is He; and then a great Force came down into me and I added, "Even when you descend into Hell, He is there too."
Then everything stopped dead.
Since then I've learned that it's part of their teaching: that what is terrible in Hell isn't so much the suffering, but that there is no God there; that it's the only part of the creation in which there is no God - there is no God in Hell. And I asserted that He is there too.
But naturally, from an intellectual point of view, all those things are explained and find their place - man has never thought anything that wasn't the distortion of a truth. That's not the difficulty, it's that for religious people there are certain things they have a DUTY to believe, and to allow the mind to discuss them is a "sin" - so naturally they close themselves and will never be able to make any progress. Whereas the materialists, on the other hand, are on the contrary supposed to know and explain everything - they explain everything rationally. So (Mother laughs), precisely because they explain everything, you can lead them where you want to.
There.
There's nothing to be done with religious people.
No. And it's not good to try either. If they cling to a religion, it means that that religion has helped them somehow or other, has helped something in them which in fact wanted to have a certitude without having to seek for it - to lean on something solid without being responsible for its solidity (someone else is responsible! [Mother laughs]), and to leave their bodies in that way. So to want to pull them out of it shows a lack of compassion - they should just be left where they are. Never do I argue with someone who has a faith - let him keep his faith! And I take great care not to say anything that might shake his faith because it's not good - such people are unable to have another faith.
But with a materialist ... "I don't argue, I accept your point of view; only, you have nothing to say - I've taken my position, take yours. If you are satisfied with what you know, keep it. If it helps you to live, very good.
"But you have no right to blame or criticize me, because I am taking my position on your own basis. Even if all that I imagine is mere imagination, I prefer that imagination to yours." That's all.
It's the same with Catholicism. Yet, if I remember correctly, their God created the world with a part of himself, no?
No, no!
No? Is it only man that he pulled out of his rib?
No! It's out of Adam's rib that he pulled man, not out of his own rib!
Aah!
It's out of Adam's rib ...
... that he pulled woman. Aah! ...
No, no, he "created" the world.
Out of nothingness he made the world?
That's right.
Then it's the same problem, the same difficulty. It's quite simply an incomprehension.
And in fact he sent his son to "save the world."
Then his son doesn't belong to the creation?
He is the son of God - not so the others.
He is the ONLY son of God?
Yes, of course!
They've twisted everything. But Adam belonged to the creation, didn't he?
Yes, while Christ isn't human, he is the son.
But he took on a human body.
Yes, but he's the son of God. He isn't a human being become divine, he is a divine being - "the son of God" - who took on a human body.
But that's understood! All Avatars are like that.
Yes, but he's the only one.
It's all twisted.
But the Virgin, in that affair? What happened to her? Because she was a woman, wasn't she?
She was human.
Yes ... because in the story, there's even a moment when Christ says, "What do I have to do with that woman"! But then, the Assumption? ...
(silence)
Of course, those who know understand very well - it's all symbolic.
But for instance, I told you I spoke with the Pope for quite a long time the day of his election, and the conversation was abruptly interrupted by a reaction he had. (It was really a mental conversation we were having: I spoke, he replied, I heard his reply - I don't know whether he was conscious of something ... probably not, but anyway; it wasn't at all a formation of my own mind because I received quite unexpected replies.) But the conversation was interrupted abruptly by a reaction he had when I told him that God is everywhere and in all things; that everything is He; and then a great Force came down into me and I added, "Even when you descend into Hell, He is there too."
Then everything stopped dead.
Since then I've learned that it's part of their teaching: that what is terrible in Hell isn't so much the suffering, but that there is no God there; that it's the only part of the creation in which there is no God - there is no God in Hell. And I asserted that He is there too.
But naturally, from an intellectual point of view, all those things are explained and find their place - man has never thought anything that wasn't the distortion of a truth. That's not the difficulty, it's that for religious people there are certain things they have a DUTY to believe, and to allow the mind to discuss them is a "sin" - so naturally they close themselves and will never be able to make any progress. Whereas the materialists, on the other hand, are on the contrary supposed to know and explain everything - they explain everything rationally. So (Mother laughs), precisely because they explain everything, you can lead them where you want to.
There.
There's nothing to be done with religious people.
No. And it's not good to try either. If they cling to a religion, it means that that religion has helped them somehow or other, has helped something in them which in fact wanted to have a certitude without having to seek for it - to lean on something solid without being responsible for its solidity (someone else is responsible! [Mother laughs]), and to leave their bodies in that way. So to want to pull them out of it shows a lack of compassion - they should just be left where they are. Never do I argue with someone who has a faith - let him keep his faith! And I take great care not to say anything that might shake his faith because it's not good - such people are unable to have another faith.
But with a materialist ... "I don't argue, I accept your point of view; only, you have nothing to say - I've taken my position, take yours. If you are satisfied with what you know, keep it. If it helps you to live, very good.
"But you have no right to blame or criticize me, because I am taking my position on your own basis. Even if all that I imagine is mere imagination, I prefer that imagination to yours." That's all.
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